CHRIST

Interview with Birgit Elisabeth Friis Emdal (B) about Christ. From the radioprogram ďDanish SpiritualityĒ on the local radio ďGladsaxeĒ, sent on 16.09.2003. Interviewer: Thomas Halskov (T).


Birgit Elisabeth Friis Emdal is both practising and teaching channelling. She channels the Ascended Masters, among others Jesus also known as Sananda or Christ.


T:
How long have you believed in Christ?

B:
I always did, really.

T:
Always? Now Iím focusing on this time, this life?

B.
As far back as I can recall, as a child Iíve always had a knowing that God exists and also the person called Jesus Christ. I remember I saw a little white figurine of him, which stood on my grandparentís bedside table. So I asked: ďWho is he?Ē and was told ďBut thatís JesusĒ. And I thought ďOh yes, he is around there, somewhereĒ.

T:
Is this something youíve brought with you, or something youíve got from your parents?

B:
Itís something coming from inside myself, quite simply.


T:
You do have a different perception of Christ than most other Christians, as I do myself. And so I must ask you: Do you see yourself as a Christian?


B:
Yes, I guess I do, but not in the traditional sense. I go beyond that, I have what I like to call a universal understanding of life, where I believe in cosmic Christ, where Christ is on all levels and is part of all religions.

T:
And one of the things that are different in your perception of Christ, and mine too for that matter, different from most Christians, is that you believe in reincarnation. When did you find out that itís possible to believe in both Christ and reincarnation?

B:
That was really something I found out all by myself as a child. One day, I donít recall how old I was, but I wasnít so old, 7-8 years maybe, I overheard someone in the family speaking about reincarnation, and that was something about being reborn. And I clearly remember, that I felt a response inside, I had a feeling of ďYes, thatís rightĒ, and if someone had asked me then: ďWhy do you think thatís right?Ē then I would just have said, like I would today, that thatís just something I know. It isnít really something I can prove as a reality, but I could feel that ďitís rightĒ, that it was so, and I didnít for one moment consider if it was part of the Christian teachings, I just felt, that there was something there, it was right, I knew something about that.

T:
And then of course you later found out, that there are Christians who also believe in reincarnation? For instance the theosophists and antroposophists, I would think you later got to hear of?

B:
Yes, and it was written in the bible too originally, it has then since been removed, thatís another story. Itís there still, but maybe you have to look around a little to find it.

T:
Yes, and itís stated very clearly in what is called the Ur Gospel, which we shall come back to later, and which wasnít incorporated in the New Testament.
But if reincarnation is a reality, does it then mean that Christ reincarnates himself?

B:
Oh yes! He is a role-model for all the rest of us, and he leads the way and walks in front of us. He said so himself too: ďI am the way, the truth and lifeĒ, so he does that.

T:
Have you any idea who else he has been besides Jesus?

B:
Yes, I havenít always known or been conscious of in any case, but I do know it today. And thatís also a knowledge thatís becoming still more common, who else he has been. Would you like some examples?

T:
Yes, very much so!


B:
The first, if we go to the bible and have a look, that was Adam, and then there were also Moses; that we also know from the Old Testament. And these things, thatís something Iíve had channelled, and which Iíve had confirmed via other channels, who also are channels of the light, and I shouldnít wonder if it is also described here and there in different books. But I know that itís right, Iíll allow myself to be that bold. Then he has also had an incarnation as emperor Melkisadek in Lemuria and as .....  in Atlantis. He has also been White Eagle, whom some people may have heard of, a red Indian chief, who once lived on earth. And there was also one named Apollonius of Tyanna, where he also was incarnated, and where he was super-clairvoyant, to use a language most people are familiar with.



T:
Lemuria, as you mentioned earlier, thatís one of the earlier civilisations, in the same way as Atlantis, which is supposed to have existed in very old times, and which most people donít know much about.

B:
Yes, but he has really been there all the time, through the times. What I am mentioning here is really just a few of the incarnations, heís had, or the bodies heís had. He has been here all the time. And he said so himself, once, for instance as Jesus over 2000 years ago: ĒI am the first and I am the last, I shall never leave youĒ. So he said so himself.

T:
As I said before, we call Jesus Sananda, thatís the name used by the ones who channel, and I guess there are some Christians, who will wonder about that. How come he is called Sananda, for thatís what he calls himself too, right?

B:
Yes, why does he do that? Thatís because the energies have been increased here on Earth, the frequencies of love have been increased here on Earth. And then there are some people, who have been told through their channel, that now it was time to start calling him Sananda. But itís a name heís had all the time really, itís part of his spiritual name, which means ďThe Bliss of TruthĒ. Itís Sanskrit, and means that, so there is nothing new in it, but it may be news to many people, that he is called that too. I well know, that many people canít abide by it, they think he should still be called Jesus, and they are very welcome to call him that, he will be there anyway, no matter what you call him, there is no problem there.

T:
Sananda is also what is called the soul-name, the soul-name of Jesus, right? We all have a soul-name.

B:
You might say that, itís what I call his spiritual name.

T:
Whereas ďJesusĒ was the name of a specific physical incarnation, he had.

B:
Yes, the personality he had, thatís right.

T:
But that might create some confusion, for you can also see ďChristĒ as the soul-name?

B:
Yes, but ďwe have many names for the things we loveĒ. And the confusing thing is, that he has many embodiments, he has an embodiment on all levels in the universe. Thatís what confusing to many people, because then it becomes a frightfully theoretical subject. Itís a quite different way of thinking you have to embark on.


T:
Earlier you mentioned a series of incarnations heís had in old times, but so you also think he is here now, with a physical presence?

B:
Yes, but thatís not just something Iím thinking, itís something I know, and I know that he has many embodiments on Earth. Itís not just ONE person or body, we can say is he, he is divided into several beings on Earth, who exist in physical form, and who all are a part of the same divine spark, we might say, the spiritual energies. But then of course, they have different personalities, these embodiments.

T:
Yes, thatís it, right? That is really a subject that interests me, this difference between the soul and the personality.
But Iím sitting here yearning now Ė and I do think some listeners do to Ė to hear some names of who he then is at this time?

B:
Iíve been asking for a little advice on what Iím may say about this, for itís really something I have begun to have some knowledge of recently, before we should make this program, without knowing what you would ask me, I started to have some idea of it. But one of his embodiments, which I may well say, for I have also said so in some articles which are openly available on the internet, that is Sai Baba. He is the bearer of the Christ-energy on Earth - he is one of them. But there are more than that.

T:
There are more? But not more you would care to mention?

B:
Not for now, but I guess it will come with time.

T:
Could you tell me a little about your relation to Sai Baba? I know he means a lot to you?

B:
Yes, for he has helped me quite a lot, he has shown himself to me on several occasions, where I have been able to see him with my physical eyes. And my relation to Sai Baba that is love - itís heart-energy quite simply. He has usually shown himself to me every time something big was happening in connection with what I do Ė with Stjernen, my center. And there he was always present, helping me, and he also has answers for me, whenever Iím in doubt. If I have come to know something through my channelling, something I canít ask other people about or read about, I usually ask him if itís real or ask him for an explanation or a sign of it. And he has always answered me. And by the way, I would like to say to those who are listening to this program now, that you can do that too, for there is really nobody, who has a monopoly on being able to talk with Sai Baba or God or Jesus or whoever, for we can all do that, and he will always answer you, when you ask. But the difficult part then is, if you believe, what you are receiving, or are aware at all that you are receiving, for you have to be like open to it, have an open heart, to be aware, when he then really answers you.
T:
Now, not all people are equally enthusiastic about Sai Baba, and there has also been launched some quite serious allegations against him now and then. What is your opinion on these allegations?

B:
I think, that people must each in themselves create their own relation to him. I think, that you should focuse on all the good things, he has done, and so do I. I focus on all the good he has done for me and for others and for the world. And then I would also like to say, that to the pure all things are pure. I know that what you accuse others of doing, or see in them, that is something you have had yourself somehow, or have had in some of oneís consciousnesses or in an earlier life maybe.

T:
But that leads on to a more fundamental question then, for there is a tradition that those who worship Jesus, they see Jesus as a perfect being. And I have a feeling, that is the same way with Sai Baba, that most of his followers see him as perfect. And that is a tendency we have in all cases to see our spiritual guides as perfect and infallible. Do you think, that all incarnations of Christ are perfect people?

B:
No, not necessarily, and I would moreover like to say too, that Jesus never claimed that about himself. We shall learn from each other, thatís the idea. That is also the meaning of his having different embodiments and different personalities, which then may be more or less perfect or infallible. And then where you get to an area, where you can say that there is something there, is there not, which is not quite what it should be, then there we can go in and remind ourselves, that we must keep to the straight and narrow path. And I can tell you, that there is nothing fortuitous in the fact that Sai Baba and more of his embodiments as well are subject to attacks from people. That is something that has been laid down in accordance with the divine plan. And that he would like to tell the listeners here through me, that ďGod is greater than the one who is in the worldĒ, he says. God is greater than the one who is in the world. But people are so busy, limiting themselves and God, and there we have to be very careful, because the human brain canít really explain or understand God with the brain, with our head, with our consciousness. Because it is heart-energy, it is something we must be able to feel in our heart.

T:
Is that to be understood in this way, that God is also greater than Sai Baba?


B:
Yes.

T:
I myself have an example, which I treasure and which I normally use, for according to my faith then Ė it is something I read from someone called Seth, who has inspired me a lot, he is also one who is being channelled Ė according to him then also John the Baptist and Paulus were incarnations of Christ, at the same time as Jesus; as you said before there may be more at the same time. And Paulus was a very composite personality, he comes after Jesus, and his assignment is really to create the Christian church. And there we are some persons really, who are not quite satisfied with the way in which he dealt with that, because there were some things he misunderstood ...

B:
Yes, and heís not satisfied himself, Iím asked to tell you.

T:
Yes, I know that, and one thing that most people can agree on that he did wrong, that is his discriminating attitude to women, and I know well, that he himself isnít satisfied with that either. But that is also why it is such an important point for me to use him as an example of one, that I believe was an incarnation of Christ, and who wasnít perfect, and who also knows it himself.

B:
Yes, and he is Ė I would like to mention to the listeners Ė he is also incarnated on Earth today in a physical body and working away in his own way to rectify the damage or misguidance he might have done then.

T:
Yes, but I donít doubt that.

The next thing I shall ask you about, thatís about Mary - for Mary she is also part of the Christ-energy. And we talked earlier about Christís different male incarnations, but what about Mary, do you know anything about who she has been then, besides Mary the Mother of Jesus?

B:
Yes, that too is coming forward here and there, and I have also seen that something has been written about it in some places. And I also know that there will be more and more about it in the near future, who she has been. And to start with the beginning, she was the one known as Eve, and then she has also been Lady Isis, as the ones who have studied something about the Ascended Masters will know, an Egyptian goddess. And I know, that she has also been both in Atlantis and Lemuria, but I havenít received any names on it yet, but I am sure it will come in time by channelling. Through me, or others who are channelling.

T:
And then I shall also ask you, like I asked you before, if she is in a physical incarnation on Earth now?

B:
Yes, first I would like to say, that there is someone else which I also have been told that she has been earlier, someone called White Buffalo Calf Woman, where she was incarnated together with White Eagle, whom I mentioned before, one of Jesusí incarnations. But youíre asking me, if she has some embodiments today as well, and that she has for she is very forth going with Jesus-Sanandaís energy, so she has many embodiments and so many personalities in the physical world here on Earth.

T:
Okay, but we donít get to know, who it is?

B:
Yes, I would like to name one, and that is Mother Meera, who has her whereabouts down in Germany. And that is also something that I have been personally told, I have been very sceptic about it like I have with so many other things, I donít believe in any old thing. But I have asked about it, I have asked both herself and Jesus-Sananda, and I have got definite answers to it, and so I know today, that she is one of the embodiments. And she is a little weird, you know, because - for the listenersí sake I must tell you, that she is not one to talk a lot. You may well come down to visit her and sit opposite her, but it done in silence. So she doesnít use a lot of words.

T:
Iím thinking just now, that Mary is very often talking about silence, when she is being channeled, so itís in accordance with that.

B:
Yes, it in accordance all right, but then I would also like to reveal, that some of the other embodiments she has, because she has several of them, there by Jove she also has some embodiments, where she uses a lot of words and where she says a lot of things. Mother Meera, she says about herself, that she is a physical incarnation of the divine mother. But she also has other embodiments, where she speaks a lot and so on, but where she doesnít say, who she is. And that is how they split it up, for the different personalities have different tasks to perform. And there are really a lot of people, who need to know, that there is a physical incarnation there. And for them to be sure, then she must say it. While other embodiments maybe donít need to say it. They have some other tasks, where the focus is elsewhere. And thatís the way it is.

T:
Are they all aware of the fact, that they are incarnations of Mary? Do you believe that?

B:
That of course is a frightfully good question, and I have given it a lot of thought myself. And to that I must say, that I donít think that all the different embodiments or personalities are aware of it, whether we are talking about Mary or it is Jesus. Some of them are, yes, but not all, but I am also sure, that some of those who are that, and who doesnít know it yet, will come to know it Ė when the time is right, and when they are ready for it, when they can take it in. But it is very, very interesting.

T:
This Mother Meera, where is she from originally?

B:
Yes, where is she from? If we are looking at a picture of her, she appears to be an Indian woman. Thatís really quite funny for thatís the case with Sai Baba too.

T:
Yes, I was just thinking about that.

B:
So they are, you see, to make it quite clear, a part of each other, part of the divine energy, Jesus-Mary.




T:
The next thing we shall talk about is the Bible. And I would like to compare the Bible to what I was talking about before, the Ur Gospel, which is one of the gospels, that didnít get into the New Testament. Do you think, Birgit, that the Bible tells the whole truth about Jesus?

B:
No-no-no, not at all. For what is written in it happens to be handed down tales. Many of the gospels have been written down amazingly many years after Jesus lived on Earth, I believe up to 30 years after, and so they are very influenced by the culture that existed at the time, the norms people had back then.
So it is certainly not the whole truth and nothing but the truth. But there are many truths in it, I shall hurry to say, we can learn a lot from it to this very day. That is quite certain, but itís not the whole truth and nothing but. And that is why itís so nice that the Ur Gospel has shown up like the Thomas Gospel has shown up. And the Dead Sea scrolls have shown up. And that was something that Edgar Cayce, the sleeping prophet, predicted before they were found. And that is also something I have reflected on a lot, for things like that, they do show up, when people are ready to receive the messages printed in them, and when we start to reflect on what truth really is, for it is the search for truth, weíre into, you and I at least. And I believe that all people on some level or other are looking for truth, looking for God.

T:
So I will also try to ask you the other way around: Do you think there is something in the Bible, which isnít true? Because these are two different issues, if on the one hand something is missing and on the other if something has been written about Jesus, which isnít true?

B:
Yes, certainly.

T:
One of the things described in the Bible, and which according to the Bible was a part of Jesusí tidings, is the idea of a Doomsday. Do you think Jesus was a prophet of doom?

B:
No, I donít think so. Jesus came to Earth with the message of love, that we shall love ourselves and we shall love our neighbour. But what Iím sure he also meant, and Iím receiving now that I may well say it, is that there is no Doomsday and Purgatory and Hell and all of these things, which many in the churches of this and that religion have been harping on. I believe that we shall all be forgiven, point 1, but we must also everyone be responsible for the actions we de facto took. We have to take that into account, so that we can rectify it and learn from it. But there really isnít some judgmental God, who will be standing there dividing people and saying: ďYou go this way, and you go that wayĒ, it isnít like that. But many within the church do have made something like that out of it.

T:
And the New Testament is moreover very self-contradictory on this point. There is an example I myself like to point out, and that is that Jesus Ė besides mentioning Doomsday here and there Ė then thereís also a place, where he says: ďI have not come to pass judgement, I have come as a saviourĒ.


B:
Yes, precisely.

T:
Then I will just bring attention to the fact, that there really are some self-contradictions here in the New Testament.

B:
Yes, well seen, and itís also a good sign that there really is something here, thatís not quite on the level. And there we must go in and seriously use our ability to discern and look to the depths of our own heart. How can you believe in a Jesus-figure, who can say both this and the opposite, he would never have done that, of course. It will only lead to confusion. What brings confusion and what creates fear in people is not coming from the Light or from God, is the way I would put it, quite the contrary.

T:
Traditionally the Day of Judgment is connected with the Return of Christ, and so I will ask you if you then believe in the Return of Christ, now when you donít believe in the Day of Judgment?

B:
Yes, but that I do, on the other side. And I do because I know it, that he will return, and then there are different ways in which he will return.

T:
Yes, in some way we have touched on the subject, since we have just talked about his actual being here all the time including now, so in a way we have already answered that question. But to that I would like to say, that what I imagine about the Return of Christ myself is Ė and thatís something thatís been channelled too, and which I believe in Ė that an especially high-ranking incarnation of Christ will appear, one which will really make a difference. Is that something you can relate to?

B:
Yes I can, but I will also say, like I said before, that he is here already. And if we take a look at Sai Baba, who I mentioned, he has really been doing tremendous many things. Both in the way of miracles, healing people as he also did as Jesus, and he has been teaching, and he still does that and delivers lectures and tells about God, and he unites all religions on Earth. And that by the way is part of the Divine Plan and what is being worked on, that we shall unite the people, quite simply, and get a common religion and a common government and so on. But having said that, then there will also with time appeat more embodiments. There are of course also several, who are already here, but whom we are not quite aware of as yet. But I would like to say, that some of these embodiments, who are also bringing his energy to Earth, are doing a lot to precisely heal people and make people happy and make them remember the wonderful and the fun stuff in life. And that is something the different embodiments are really very good at. And then you listeners may sit at home by yourselves and ponder: ďWho might it be, then?Ē But it is always messages of joy, and he is good at getting to a lot of people at once and touch peoplesí hearts. And that as a matter of fact is what itís all about, and he said so himself when he walked on Earth as Jesus, that thatís the energy, that has to come to our hearts, itís our own soul-energy. He is also a symbol of our own soul, our own divinity. So when weíre talking about the Return of Christ, then itís not just in the form of different embodiments like Sai Baba or others. Itís just as much a question of opening our own hearts and get in contact with Ė letís say Ė Jesus within ourselves, for we are a part of him, we are parts of each other.

T:
What youíre saying there, I find immensely interesting, and that really leads me to the next question, which has to do with the fact, that Jesus according to the Bible was Godís son, so understood that he was the only son of God, and that the rest of us are not Godís sons or daughters, and that doesnít quite rhyme with my own perception of Christ or Jesus as someone representing a human potential, that we all possess. And that is related to what you said before. But what is your perception of these issues? If he was Godís son? Or the only one?

B:
Yes, he was Godís son, but he was certainly not the only one, and Jesus has never ever said so either, it is a again a distortion of what he said. On the contrary, we could call him the King of Kings, but where does that leave us? Then we would all be kings and queens. And he said there, he always talked about ďmy fatherĒ, but the father of Jesus is our father as well, it is God, our father in the universe. So he has never ever postulated that, but it is people, who put Jesus up on a pedestal and made him into something untouchable, which we canít relate to at all, and that was never his wish. He wishes to walk beside us and take our hand as equals - this is his wish. He is very intent on getting this out on the radio.

T:
Iíll just follow up on that, that some people want to put Jesus on a pedestal. And I know, that you have an example of that, that he didnít like it himself, when he was Jesus ...?

B:
He did not, and he actually showed that, for Jesusí life was planned so, that he should show us by leading us, how to look at things. He actually did it in that way by an example, which I clearly remember. He washed the apostlesí feet, the twelve apostles he had gathered around him in order to help him let on the good news about God. And I also know from many of my channelling-training groups, that some of them have experienced that he comes to them, and they see him, and where he kneels before them and where he is if not washing their feet then in any case bowing deeply before them. And many people have not been able to deal with that at all, for they donít see Jesus like that, they see him up on a giant pedestal. So he has shown it many times since then, and itís very much on his mind to remind us of it, that we are just as much as he is, and that is what he wants so much, we are to think big, we are to think like God, and we are to think kindly of ourselves, we are to believe in ourselves, we are a part of him and a part of God, and we all are that.

T:
I have yet another example of the difference between the Bible and the Ur Gospel, which is, that in the Ur Gospel there is no mentioning of a Virgin Birth, but Joseph is mentioned as the physical father of Jesus. What do you think?

B:
Yes, Jesus had a physical father. This thing about a Virgin Birth and so on, that is once again distortions, that came along because people would like to make things as special as possible and as pure as possible and as far from mankind as possible. And God wants just the opposite, to be close to mankind. So if God wants to send an emissary to Earth as his son, then he will of course do so in the traditional way, and that means by a quite normal birth. And this is the case with Mary also. Iím not sure, that it was precisely Joseph, who was his father. They lived together and were together and he took part in raising Jesus, that is quite right, but in my universe, there somebody else was the father, and that was a young Roman soldier, she had been in contact with.

T:
Well, so he was even born out of wedlock? Now I have heard of that story, and according to the story I heard, it was a case of rape.  Do you have an opinion on that?

B:
It was not.

T:
Well, I must say, this is even more controversial, that he was even born out of wedlock. That I didnít know!

B:
Yes, but then this is the way that Jesus would like so send some love to all the people, all the children, who are born out of wedlock. He is saying through me now, that there is no such thing as an illegitimate child, for all children are children of God.

T:
One more comparison between the Ur Gospel and the Bible for in the Ur Gospel Jesus is a vegetarian, and he is very caring about animals. And there are a lot of instances in the Ur Gospel, where he is helping animals. There is nothing about that in the New Testament, isnít something missing?

B:
Yes, I think so too for Jesus he does love animals, since animals are also a part of the divine universe. And in some way itís really a scandal that is hasnít really been mentioned. The animals are right behind us in their evolution, and they are really helping out on Earth.
But I believe, that those who wrote the Holy Book didnít find it important. They focused on Man and did thereby put him on a higher level than the animals. But in many ways animals are more pure beings than humans. Animals, you see, have no second thoughts about one another etc., which humans might have. So, seeing it that way, itís open to discussion which of us has come farthest in evolution. I believe, that we can learn quite a lot from the animals.




T:
I would like to give an example here, for as Iíve said, there are many stories in the Ur Gospel, where Jesus helps animals, also against humans, who are torturing animals. For example thereís a story, where some men are maltreating a cat, and then Jesus comes along and tells them to stop. They will not do that right away though. So he gets hold of a rope and drives them away like he did in the temple, and then they run away. But then there is one of these here men, who is extra bad, and he comes back to challenge Jesus, i.e. to attack him, and where it then says, that Jesus made his arm wither, and where people get scared and say that: ďThat was a terrible warlockĒ. It then ends in the way that the man gives up what he was doing, and it ends then with his mother pleading for him and asking if Jesus wonít make him well again, and then he does so. And according to this story the man becomes a disciple of Jesus. But thatís of course a little tougher version of Jesus, than the one we know from the Bible. Apart from that episode of course, the one we know from the temple, where he drives out the hucksters from the temple.

B:
Yes, but itís this thing about being responsible for our actions. By the way I would like to say, that Mary is coming through now, and she says now, that she is still pleading for him, and then she laughs! Then here comes an example; now weíve talked about Sai Baba, who is one of his embodiments, there I have a little story, we can just squeeze in: It was a man, who was down in Sai Babaís ashram and there are many old and dirty dogs, you know, running around down there quite neglected, and he had become irritated with one of these dogs, and so he had kicked it. And then he comes into Sai Babaís ashram, and that day Sai Baba comes up to him and says: ďWhy did you kick me yesterday?Ē And then this man becomes all bewildered and says: ďWhy I would never do that, Sai Baba, surely I havnít done that?Ē And then Sai Baba reminds him of the dog, he kicked and says: ďDonít you remember that?Ē Yes, he did so. ďThere you kicked meĒ, he then saidĒ.
There you go!

T:
The last example, I have, where I would like to make a comparison to the Ur Gospel, is, that in the Ur Gospel it says, that Jesus travelled both to Egypt, Persia and India to study, before he started his own preaching. Do you believe that?

B:
Yes but I know he did that, and he was travelling around with precisely Joseph, who became his father. He took on himself the role as a father, although he wasnít his biological father, and that was a part of Josephís assignment to go into that role, it was something agreed upon to be like that. So he did that, and he learned much from it. You know we can learn a lot from travelling the world and seeing other cultures and learning from each other, and it was important, that he did so.

T:
Yes, and that is by the way one of my own favourites, because I am personally convinced, that Jesus was inspired by Buddhism. And itís obvious if you believe that, that when he has been on these travels, he naturally met Buddhists. That too is a bit of a controversial subject.

Now, I should like to talk a bit about the church and itís relation to Christ, for as I said before then both your and my perception of Christ is in many ways different from the way he is seen by the Christian churches. How do you feel about the Christian churches nowadays?

B:
I feel that we all can see, that not an awful lot of people are going to  the traditional Danish church these days, and that is because the energy has come to a standstill. There isnít really a lot of miracles happening there. It isnít the way, Jesus said it should be. And if you donít follow up on what he said, then the energy fades out, and then people donít want to come and be judged in that church, and that has happened uncountable times before. And there is not the liveliness, that there could be. And therefore we see new forms of Free Churches arise, and other initiatives which attract a lot more people, we see that happening.


T:
Yes, and there we have these charismatic churches, which are flourishing these days, but even there you are at the risk of being judged, I should think. There are also some of these new churches, which are very much into doomsday prophesies and have a fundamentalist attitude, I should say.

B:
Yes, if you are sinful or not sinful and so on. The Pentecostal Movement is much into music entertainment and having enjoyment as a part of it, and a lot of people go there I know, and I have been there myself to experience it. And thatís fine enough of course, but there is still something that needs to be cleansed out, something which is not according to Jesusí teachings. And that is a process, which will take place over so and so much time, slowly but surely we are moving forward. And luckily so many priests of the established church are beginning to open up to it and breaking down the old systems. And that is nice to see, and it has luckily started, but it is just going a bit slowly.

T:
There is a lot happening at the moment, also in our own established church. For instance with this priest, who didnít believe in God! What do you think of a priest, who doesnít believe in God?

B:
Somewhere Iím thinking: Whatís he doing there then?

T:
I think so too. There I think the tolerance has been taken too far.

B:
I do mean, that it was the meaning from the start of mankind, that if you are a sort of priest in a church, then you ought to be a representative of God. And if you donít believe in the one you represent, then something is wildly wrong. I think itís fine, that he was open about it, but it is the great question if itís okay, that he is still there then, thatís just my opinion.

T:
That is my opinion also. I donít think itís okay. I think thatís a mistaken tolerance. But do you yourself belong to a Christian church these days?

B:
I am a member of the Established Danish Lutheran Church, and I have also both been baptised and had a confirmation, but it is very rarely I go there, because it bores me, and nothing really happens. So I have sought elsewhere and seen what goes on there. I love the Catholic Mass for instance, they have a lot of rituals, and I like that. And so there is a little more going on. I believe, that the church needs to have liveliness and it needs to have enjoyment and get people more into the process, that you take active part and maybe ascend the pulpit and say something, and sing together and dance together, all the things, that Jesus really did, when he was on Earth. Followed by great indignation, even sometimes from his twelve disciples, who thought that now he was being quite childish and ďcan you really do that?Ē But yes, you can do that, because Christ is joy, God is joy, it isnít really some Doomsday-serious
matter, where you are cowering in your chair. That was never Godís meaning, never.

T:
I think itís interesting to compare our own Protestant Church to the Catholic Church. One of the most important differences, as I see it, between the Protestant Church and the Catholic Church, is that Mary plays a very important role with the Catholics. She is almost unseen in our Protestant Church. I think thatís a shame!

B:
Yes, thatís right. Seen or unseen? There are a lot of pictures of her in the protestant churches as well, but there she is not given so much importance, as the Catholics do. And on that point I might lean a little bit towards the Catholic point of view, because Mary was the one, who in physical form brought the Divine down to Earth by way of Jesus Christ, and so she is also more human. And God, of course,
would like to be more human through all the rest of us. So there, I think, they have got hold of something right, Iíll admit that, also because they make the faith more alive with their rituals, they use incense and many of the things, which are well known within the alternative world, where also there is kind of a little more going on. So that makes it exiting to be there, and you can feel yourself, that something is happening, and you get a good experience instead of just sitting there and listening to something, you maybe donít understand. I mean that in old times the priests were standing there preaching in Latin, my foot. Nobody understood a word, did they?

T:
No, and then I would like to add, that I also believe, that there are a little more priests in the Catholic Church, who believe in God! I donít think, it would have been accepted in the Catholic Church, this thing about not believing in God!

B:
Thatís quite a postulation there, Thomas!

T:
So, that happens to be my personal opinion.

B:
And maybe you are right.
So I sympathize with them a lot.

T:
The next thing I shall ask you about is - for just earlier we talked about different churches, our attitude to different churches - could you imagine, that we some time in the future will have a sort of channelling-church, where people with the same idea of Christ as we have, can get together?

B:
Certainly, and in a way I think it has already begun. The people coming to my place, for instance, for there we do have channelling, and we talk about God, speak the good news as Jesus did too, and occasionally we also experience a couple of miracles or more. So the energy has started, and I know, that it is something, that will grow. I have several colleagues - and others - who are interested to get into it. And funny as it may seem, I myself have been called upon by several people, who for instance were about to get married. They would like me to conduct a ceremony for them instead of a priest. Because they too believe in something else and something bigger, than is found within the Danish Established Church.


T:
Now that makes me think about something, for we were just talking about the bible earlier, I bet you know the one called ďDivine InterlocutionsĒ, which happens to describe an alternative marriage ceremony. But another thing on my mind is, that it already exists in USA, and I also know, that you have had some considerations about taking up a function as a sort of priest, so that you can officiate at a wedding. It is this organisation called ďUniversal BrotherhoodĒ. Is that something, you are still considering?

B:
Where they ordain priest. Yes, I have considered it carefully, and I also want to do it, among other things because I have been reminded of it several times during my lifetime. But then I checked it out, and itís still not legal in Denmark to do it, and that means, there is a lot of groundwork to do, before you can sign the papers yourself, and things like that. And it also might be, that I and some others will go into it at some point in time, for there is no great sense in being ordained without really being so officially, so that people just the same have to go to the city hall or some other place to get the official papers. So that is something, that is put on hold, and I know, that there are a number of people in Denmark, who would like to see it, so itís a question of time before I or someone else get up to it, for it takes quite a lot of work to check things out and get the proper licences.

T:
Then I would like to talk a little bit about Jesusí relations to aliens! That Ďs a bit of a controversial subject too. You once said, so I remember, that ďJesus was maybe the greatest spacemanĒ. What did you really mean by that?

B:
Jesus said it himself, you know, when he was walking on Earth as Jesus: ďI am not of this worldĒ. And when we are talking about space people, where we typically see them  as coming from the outside, from other galaxies and stars and planets, then he must mean, that he is one of them. And then I should think, that is my personal opinion, that he is the greatest of them, the one who has come further than anyone else in his consciousness.

T:
But I assume that you mean, as we talked about before, that he is incarnated physically as a human being, right? But that he then could have had incarnations on other planets?

B:
Yes, for as I think I said earlier at the start of the program, he is simply on all levels in the universe. So at the same time as he can have up to several physical embodiments on Earth, then he may well have a consciousness on Sirius for instance and other places, Arcturus, really on all of them, for he is everywhere. Like we say about God. God is everywhere, God is omnipresent.


T:
And I know too, that Sananda he is still to this day cooperating with aliens, and I would like you to tell us a little about that, about the cooperation he has with aliens?

B:
Yes, itís funny you should ask me about that, for I have personally started to hold both lectures and some courses about star-people and angel-people. And there are quite many star-people incarnated on Earth, that is people coming to Earth with a knowledge from other universes. And those are the ones he is cooperating with, who he gives inspirations in the form of channelling or a bright idea, a good idea. So there is an ongoing cooperation there all the time, from the Divine Energy and to Earth, to the physical level or to other star-galaxies. And that is all something, that goes on in our higher bodies, that is in our higher consciousness, our higher self, our soul-energy.

T:
And I also know, that Jesus-Sananda plays a central part for the aliens, who cooperate with Earth and visit the Earth, for instance the Arcturians, whom I know you channel sometimes. Isnít it true, that they too see him as their leader and role model?

B:
Certainly, thatís what they do. So those who have been a little too busy invoking aliens - you shouldnít do that off hand, for it isnít certain it has any purpose. But if you do it and want to try to channel some of them, then invoke those, who are working under Christ, for then you are on the safe side. And I have to say that, for there is, you know, both the good and the less good, both on Earth and on every other level. It is the battle between the Light and the Darkness. And so one has to be conscious of these things.

T:
One thing I find interesting is, that the picture we see of Christ today, and which many have begun to believe in, that happens to be a much more cooperative Christ. As for the church it has a tradition for seeing Christ as the only one, you are allowed to deal with, and everything else is in Satanís domain. Aliens are out of the question, and over all you should be very wary of contacting any other spiritual force. But there we have quite a different perception of Jesus. Donít you think itís interesting, that the picture is changing, and that we today have a picture of a Christ, who is cooperating with a lot of others?

B:
A much subtler picture, thatís for sure, but I also well know, why it has come to that, this thing about some people being afraid of laying other things into it. I also talk about Buddha at my center and I talk about Shamanism, The Great Spirit and so on. And all of it is a part of God. But itís in order not to confuse people, and because of the fear: ďHow is it all coming together?Ē. Sometimes Man needs some small rigid systems and learning to deal with that first. But the energy is here now, and now they would like to from the spiritual side, that we should see the wholeness of it, and that God is in everything, and is a cooperative God, quite surely, for we are all a part of that energy. And as I said before: ďGod is greater, than he who is in the worldĒ. So itís manís own limitation, which comes into play, and Manís fear of the energy, when something like that arises. And fear, you know, is our greatest enemy.

T:
One thing that I personally think is immensely interesting is that you can really connect this to what is called a change of paradigm, which is something happening in the world of science. There is at the moment an ongoing change, where people overall have begun to focus on cooperation as the governing principle in the world and not on competition as the governing principle.
I have just one more question, before we close, and that is something, which is immensely important, I think, something you talked about the other day, that is, there is something called an adept, which is supposed to be a person, who has reached a higher level than Jesus and the Ascended Masters. How can that be possible?

B:
Yes, but that is a little twist or a misunderstanding, you might say. An adept is a master, what they in the esoteric world call a 5. consecrated. And the part of Christ called Jesus he went through that consecration, when he walked on Earth. But that is not to say, that some of his other bodies did not already have more consecrations. But exactly that personality called Jesus, he was 5. consecrated on Earth. And the Ascended Masters, they are 5.-6. consecrated and so on all of them, it is a Master, when he has come so far. And then you can choose whether to incarnate on Earth in a physical body or to stay in some other worlds. But I may well reveal, that all the Masters are on Earth right now, for now it must be lifted, now it must go to the 5. dimension, now it must rise to be a shining Christ-planet. And that is what is being worked on, that we too shall become Masters, we shall go through these consecrations the way Jesus did it.

T:
This here 5. consecration, is that the highest you can go through, or is there one even higher?

B:
No, no. There are some even higher.

T:
So that means, that itís possible to go to a higher level than Jesus did?

B:
Yes, higher than when he walked on Earth. But that is not the same thing as saying, that he - in some of his other consciousnesses - wasnít higher, if you know what I mean.

T:
Or can become higher?

B:
Or can become higher. But of course there is one higher, and that is God Himself.

T:
Yes, of course, I quite agree!